26 Comments so far ↓

• David // Jan 9, 2010 at 10:34 am

  Great post, I will be using this!!!
  Keep up the good work!

  David R.
  David´s last blog ..Merry Christmass!! What are Your New Year Goals?

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  Logan Reply:
  January 10th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

  Thanks David!

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• peter jowett // Jan 9, 2010 at 3:37 pm

  Great solid content Logan and Debbie
  Love all your blog posts ..they are interesting and informative
  Will spend the day looking at this website !
  Thanks again Peter

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  Logan Reply:
  January 10th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

  Thanks Peter!

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• Anita Cohen-Williams // Jan 9, 2010 at 7:46 pm

  Debbie,

  Several of the older books I have looked at in the Hathi Trust that are in the Public Domain have this comment on them:

  Users are free to download, cite and link to this digital item. Downloaded portions may not be redistributed, rehosted, or used commercially.

  How can this be true if it is public domain?
  Anita Cohen-Williams´s last blog ..Inbound Links

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  Logan Reply:
  January 11th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

  Hi Anita,

  Sounds like the Google disclaimer you’re talking about….

  Many big repositories of Public Domain books and other items slap disclaimers or “terms of use” on their stuff like that. We get questions all time from subscribers that are unsure or uneasy about using this material as their own usually because even though there is no doubt that a certain piece of material on a website is no longer protected by copyright and is this thus in the public domain, there is some sort of disclaimer, terms of use statement, “license agreement” or even a notice of copyright that seems to dictate otherwise.

  Some even go so far as to attempt to establish a false copyright…

  Mechanical Reproductions of Public Domain works Are NOT Copyrightable – Simply taking a work that is in the public domain and creating an exact “mechanical reproduction” of it (scanning it into a computer, copying it on a copy machine, etc.) does not meet the “minimal creativity” requirements needed to be able to copyright the work as dictated by U.S. Copyright Law and this has been enforced time and time again in courts throughout the country.

  No creativity is required to simply produce an exact facsimile of a public domain work by scanning it into a computer therefore no one can claim copyright ownership of exact reproductions of public domain material.

  For any one that’s sqeamish about violating these “terms of use” or “disclaimers” there are two ways that you can make yourself feel better. Remember, we’re talking about stuff that is Public Domain here, not legitimately copyrighted works…

  1) Go back to the source. Use this site as a research tool, do your homework, research the origin of the material, and go find the original work from the Public Domain that’s not bound up with a click-wrap agreement, terms of use or disclaimer statement and make what use you want of it without worrying that someone is going to challenge you. In other words, go find the original Public Domain book and scan your own copy.

  2) NEVER use the actual file provided but rather extract the public domain content from it. For instance, if you’re dealing with a pdf scan of a public domain book – no matter what anyone says, once a book is in the Public Domain, it’s ours, it belongs to the public at large. If the content is confined within a pdf that someone is trying to control by slapping a notice on it or by binding with a click-wrap agreement or disclaimer, fine – LIBERATE IT! Free the content from the PDF. It’s much happier that way anyway! Ok, I’m verging on the metaphysical now but I think you get my point – even if the PDF’s use is supposedly restricted, the Public Domain content is NOT. Pay someone to retype it, use a software utility to extract the text out of it, whatever – just release the content and then reuse it as you see fit.

  That’s how we operate our business and we recommend you do the same.

  For anyone interested, I would also like to invite you to download and read a special report we released a while back on this very subject…

  http://pdthmagdl.s3.amazonaws.com/CopyWRONG.pdf

  Thanks Anita!

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• Ken // Jan 10, 2010 at 1:22 pm

  Hey you two,

  Hathi Trust, is interesting research tool, my problem with Public Domain information is most of it that you can use is pre 1963.

  My question is how relevant is all this free information in today’s world of 2010?

  So much of the information is so outdated that it seems to me that it would be foolish to try to publish in today’s world. I may be wrong, but that’s my personal take on Public Domain, maybe there is something I’m missing.

  From Ken in cool, cool Florida, its never been this cold in at least 50 years.

  Cheers

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  Logan Reply:
  January 10th, 2010 at 1:29 pm

  Hi Ken,

  Good to hear from you.

  We’ve always take the position in our publishing business that where ever possible we take existing Public Domain content and use it as the basis for entirely new products. We very rarely republish Public Domain content as is.

  With that said, let me give you a few quick examples using some of the Public Domain books listed in this post.

  What you do with the content really depends on what you are trying to accomplish with the new product you are wanting to bring to market.

  I will be the first to admit that there are some older books that don’t lend themselves well to being republished.

  It depends on the book, the content…and the market.

  For instance, the first book in the list on this post…

  Motor cycles and how to manage them
  by Wilson, A. J.
  Published 1903
  http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/005858627

  This book is obviously very outdated, motorcycles have obviously changed a lot in the last 100 years. Does this fact make the content useless? I think not. The content in this book would be great to use as material for a new book on the history of motorcycling or it could even be republished in it’s original context and marketed from a nostalgia perspective to die-hard motorcycle enthusiasts. There’s almost always a segment of any given market that loves the old stuff, you can be sure.

  Now let’s take this book from the list…

  How to grow roses
  by Pyle, Robert 1877-
  Published 1930
  http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/001506017

  It was published in 1930. This is a very evergreen topic. Do you really think that growing roses has changed all that much since 1930? Doubtful. This would make wonderful content for an entirely new product…or it could be republished in it’s original context and marketed using it’s age to it’s advantage – Long lost secrets from a rose growing expert. People love old-timey long lost secrets and you can use this to your advantage.

  It’s really about the creativity and imagination you’re willing to put into it.

  Some see worthless old books, I see a goldmine of killer valuable content waiting to be repurposed for an entirely new generation of readers.

  “Today’s world”, yesterday world ~ in the grand scheme of things it’s all the same. The only “foolish” thing would be to make the mistake of writing off this unbelievably rich pool of expertly written content which we call the Public Domain as old and useless.

  It’s all TOTALLY relevant ~ one day, I may even convince you of that! ; )

  Thanks Ken,

  Logan

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• Ron // Jan 10, 2010 at 1:32 pm

  I feel like a little baby trying to crawl, not even thinking about walking. It seems there is so much that I have no idea where to start.

  Thanks for all of your help.

  Ron

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  Logan Reply:
  January 10th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

  Hi Ron,

  That’s definitely a feeling we all have to deal with any time we start something new.

  The best place to start is to sit down and brainstorm ideas, what interests you? Do you have any hobbies or even a great interest in a topic that you feel you could build a business around?

  Think along those lines a little and I’m sure we could find you something to run with.

  Thanks Ron!

  Logan

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• Marilyn // Jan 10, 2010 at 1:39 pm

  Hi Debra and Logan,

  That is great information. I think I can like that web site more than the others. I am so excited. Right now I am getting some information on how to do a blog – seo, keywords etc. for the blog. This site might be my best option to choosing a niche since my homework is to get about 30 keywords and I must get information as the weeks go along on the keywords.

  Thanks a lot.

  Marilyn

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  Logan Reply:
  January 10th, 2010 at 1:42 pm

  Hi Marilyn,

  Excellent!! You can’t go wrong learning to blog. Blogs definitely one of the quickest ways to establish a powerful presence in whichever niche you choose. Keep it rolling along, we’re proud of you!

  Logan

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• Ken // Jan 10, 2010 at 3:42 pm

  Hey Logan,

  You have a good point that I have not considered, interesting concept worth looking into. I’m into article marketing and always looking for new content of interest.

  Ezinearticles guidelines as follows MUST NOT BE AN ARTICLE YOU RIPPED-OFF FROM THE PUBLIC DOMAIN OR BOUGHT (PLR).

  As you see they really are paranoid on their Articles, of-course there many other Directories that rank well.

  Thanks for the update.

  Cheers

  Ken Sellers

  [Reply]

  

  Logan Reply:
  January 10th, 2010 at 3:43 pm

  Very familiar with ezinearticles policy, been submitting articles to them for years.

  Perspective on that…

  1) If you use an obscure article from a public domain magazine in your niche that’s never been republished, how would they know it was from the Public Domain? They wouldn’t.

  2) Anyone that’s worried about this can simply use the original article as a template and rewrite it to make it unique – it’s a LOT faster then writing an article from scratch no matter how you slice it.

  This is a non-issue.

  Thanks Ken!

  Logan

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• Sheila Carroll // Jan 10, 2010 at 6:38 pm

  Logan,
  With the HatiTrust digital files you said:
  “With the “pdf” option, you can only download up to ten pages of the books at a time. Kind of a pain, but if you really wanted to, you could download the entire book ten pages at a time and then stitch it all back together into one document.”

  I was not able to download more than one PDF page at a time. What’s your secret?

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  Logan Reply:
  January 10th, 2010 at 7:11 pm

  Hi Sheila,

  Well, you’re right. I originally wrote this article back in August of last year for our private member’s site. Looks like they’ve changed it to one page at a time now.

  Hathitrust is mostly serving books digitized by Google at this point although that should change over time. If you find a pre-1923 book you’d like to download in PDF form, it may pay off to go search for that same title on http://books.google.com. You’ll probably find it there as well and you can download the entire PDF.

  Public Domain books published in the U.S. between 1923 – 1963 won’t show up in Google Books though even if they have been digitized by Google so you’d have to do what you can here or go source the book yourself at a used book site like http://www.abebooks.com and have it scanned.

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  Sheila Carroll Reply:
  January 11th, 2010 at 8:27 am

  Thanks Logan,
  If the book is cited on HathiTrust does that mean it is out of copyright even if it is after 1923?
  Thanks for all your great stuff!

  [Reply]

  

  Logan Reply:
  January 11th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

  Hi Sheila,

  As you know anything published in the U.S. before 1923 is in the Public Domain in the U.S. by default.

  Anything published in the U.S. between 1923 and 1963 is in the Public Domain in the U.S. provided that it’s copyright protection was NOT renewed 28 years after publication.

  With that said, any books here published in the U.S. between 1923 and 1963 that are “full view” accessible SHOULD be in the Public Domain. I would love to give you a loud and clear “YES” but that would be incredibly irresponsible of me because I don’t know exactly what facilities they have in place over there to check these things.

  I wouldn’t assume anything published between 1923-1963 is in the Public Domain without checking the copyright status myself first. Every book I have double-checked thus far has been in the Public Domain but that doesn’t mean there aren’t some in there that are there by mistake.

  Don’t trust anyone’s copyright status assessment of a book until you’ve either checked it out yourself thoroughly or have hired a qualified copyright attorney to do it for you.

  It’s also possible that there are some legitimately copyrighted books with “full-view” that are there by copyright holder permission as well.

  Bottom line ~ when you find something you would like to repurpose, take a few extra minutes to verify the copyright status yourself first using the procedures you learned in the Public Domain Treasure Hunter’s Kit.

  How’s that for a CYA answer? ; )

• Sarah // Jan 11, 2010 at 2:31 pm

  Thanks for the great information! Have already looked up quite a bit on Hathitrust. I found a lot of interesting ones and then went to Amazon only to find someone had already done reprints of them. Most of them were not done very professionally though (awful two-color covers, etc) and extremely high-priced.

  I know there are many other things to be done with these public domain books than just reprinting them but have you ever had something reprinted even though someone else has done the same thing? I would imagine so… think of all the fairy tale stories that come in every size, shape and color and people obviously buy them. I guess the packaging/presentation is what is important.

  Anyway, great stuff and am spending A LOT of time looking at all the possibilities… need sleep, need sleep!

  My next step is to figure out how to transfer all this great stuff into products that will sell but not spend a fortune doing so!

  thanks again!

  [Reply]

  

  Logan Reply:
  January 11th, 2010 at 3:03 pm

  Hi Sarah,

  You’re welcome, more to come soon.

  “I know there are many other things to be done with these public domain books than just reprinting them but have you ever had something reprinted even though someone else has done the same thing?”

  We very rarely reprint a Public Domain book exactly as is. We feel that’s a BIG mistake. Instead, we use Public Domain content as the basis of ALL NEW products. Mix Public Domain content with your own creativity, style, personality, and imagination and you’ll produce great, unique products that virtually have no competition at least in terms of competing with other marketer’s selling the exact same thing.

  Quite frankly, when I see someone reprinting a Public Domain book in it’s original format it makes me want to hurl ~ that’s about the laziest thing a person can do. That’s one reason Amazon’s Kindle store got overrun by Public Domain books and they had to put their foot down, everybody and their sister was uploading the exact same book!

  The key is to take existing Public Domain content and spin it into something wonderful and unique – reposition it and put your own spin on it.

  “Anyway, great stuff and am spending A LOT of time looking at all the possibilities… need sleep, need sleep!”

  As my great grandpa (as well as Conan the Barbarian) always said, “There’s plenty of time for rest in the grave”.

  Right here, right now, it’s time to hustle! ; )

  “My next step is to figure out how to transfer all this great stuff into products that will sell but not spend a fortune doing so!”

  And it’s our job to help you along the way ~ stay tuned!

  [Reply]

• Fred // Mar 27, 2010 at 1:47 pm

  Hi Debra and Logan,

  I’m a subscriber of Public Domain Treasure Hunter. there’s a wealth of info buried here which i haven’t had time to thoroughly cover just yet.

  I’m wondering if you can point me to a section that explains (or just tell me) whether scanned public domain books from Google, Archive.org, etc can be published as a themed collections to CD or DVD without modification to the scanned PDFs?

  Thanks in advance for your help. Keep up the great work.

  [Reply]

  

  Logan Reply:
  March 27th, 2010 at 3:07 pm

  Hi Fred!

  It’s great to hear from you.

  We have never recommended reselling books that you have downloaded from Google or the Internet Archive exactly as downloaded however, there is certainly nothing stopping you from doing so. You asked if they could be sold without modification ~ at a bare minimum, you need to remove any pre-pages that have been added (like the first page of any google book that has the legalese mumbo jumbo) and then remove the water mark from every page in the document (the digitized by…part).

  This way, by the time you’re done, you’ll have an exact mechanical reproduction of your public domain book without any of the junk that Google (or Microsoft) ads to it. Then you free to gather them into themed collections and sell as you want.

  Hope that helps…

  Thanks Fred!
  Logan

  [Reply]

• Holly // Mar 27, 2010 at 2:04 pm

  My Main question for you is, “Is it okay to list these item’s on the public domain for sale on ebay” Without getting into any sort of trouble for copyright infringment?

  [Reply]

  

  Logan Reply:
  March 27th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

  Hi Holly,

  When an item is in the Public Domain, it is by definition no longer protected by copyright law so you can legally do anything you want with it including repackaging it and selling it on ebay.

  I would add however that if you are taking some Public Domain item that you downloaded from another site and placing it for sale on ebay (which is what I think you are actually asking), then by all means do it but make sure you remove any identifying traits first. In other words, either extraxt the Public Domain content out of the document and use it to prepare a new document or at least remove any evidence of the site in question first before reselling.

  I know that’s kind of vague ~ if you have a specific Public Domain item or items you are looking at, let me know what they are and I can give you a clearer explanation of what you would have to do with them to prepare them for sale.

  Thanks Holly!

  [Reply]

• Plagiarism, Ethics, And The Public Domain // Aug 2, 2010 at 4:59 am

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  [...] say you know what niche you want to work in and you’re ready to go find some relevant Public Domain books to draw your content from. Maybe, you’ve already exhausted all of the known online Public [...]

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